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Post by dara1012 on Aug 5, 2012 17:24:58 GMT -6
I might have to make it my book club book for when I host next.
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Post by danikasmom on Aug 5, 2012 17:25:11 GMT -6
Here's a hint it's not the black guy.Just a little offensive, fyi.. Only a little offensive? Shoot I was going for super offensive given the tone of this thread is so clearly skewed towards a State that provides everything for it's citizens and instead of asking them to occasionally work to exercise their rights just hands them everything on a silver platter by redirecting the wealth of the few who by either hard work or accident of birth have it. If you are offended by what I have to say then you aren't paying attention. There are many problems with the US today, excessive compensation for some is certainly a part of that. But so is the welfare nanny state that has continued to flourish based on politicians and voters who think that if something is worth working for it should be given to all. The original constitution limited voters to people who owned land. That wasn't a terrible idea.
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Post by sharon on Aug 5, 2012 17:29:09 GMT -6
Well, then I guess I was "comprehending" you right. How very hateful.
And despite what you are spewing out at others, when someone tries to do the same to you, I would stand up for your rights. This is America after all.
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Post by danikasmom on Aug 5, 2012 19:07:22 GMT -6
Well, then I guess I was "comprehending" you right. How very hateful. And despite what you are spewing out at others, when someone tries to do the same to you, I would stand up for your rights. This is America after all. Please direct me to the post I made that was hateful. You and I may fall on diametrical sides of this issue, and my posts may have been inflammatory and insulting, but not hateful. The original constitution limited the right to vote to landowners because they were generally the people who were most knowledgeable about the issues, and they were the people with any amount of skin in the game for lack of a better term. Taxes affected them because they owned the land that was taxed. This would no longer be a valid method as income taxes and sales taxes mean everyone has some skin in the game. What we have now is a populace that votes for candidates on single hot button issues in many cases, and for candidates who are so beholden to their party and special interest groups that they wouldn't know how to do the right thing were it even offered. Someone who doesn't have the time or financial wherewithal to obtain an ID (which will not cost them anything more than time) likely also doesn't have the time or in some cases the intelligence to accurately research which candidate most honestly reflects their viewpoints and beliefs in an effort to cast an informed vote. So elections have become nothing more than a popularity contest where the best looking and most charismatic of the candidates spew mindless platitudes and fear monger in an effort to get people to vote for them. The system is broken, and this issue will have such a minimal bearing on things that it really isn't worth discussing further. Frankly this should be a federal law along with federal ID requirements, states should not be setting different laws on an issue like this that has a bearing on federal elections. You want to vote for your local city council member without an ID? I don't care, that person will have minimal impact on my day to day life. You want to vote for a Senator, Congressman or President? Prove you are a resident of the US and the district you are voting in, otherwise you are potentially infringing on my right to live in a country with fair and honest elections.
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Post by elizac on Aug 7, 2012 7:22:27 GMT -6
My thoughts on this discussion:
(1) IF there was a requirement for everyone to have an ID to vote, this might inspire some organizations who care about the citizens voting to help them get an ID. I think that would be an excellent way to serve those who cannot obtain an ID on their own.
(2) I think, having an ID would empower individuals in the long run, open more doors for them, give them the sense of belonging.
(3) My DH knew of someone who voted twice in a presidential election: in MN and another state. How can such acts be stopped? What if someone got paid to vote (who cannot vote, like me, for example)?
(4) How does one determine if a person is allowed to vote (for example, is an American) without an ID?
(5) Would same arguments apply for ID exemption if it was not about voting but, for instance, flying?
(6) And those who know more on this, elderly and disabled people who do not have IDs, how do they access medicare/medicaid services? I just have a hard time believing that there is a very large population of elderly without IDs using government provided services.
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Post by merrr on Aug 7, 2012 9:21:36 GMT -6
My thoughts on this discussion: (1) IF there was a requirement for everyone to have an ID to vote, this might inspire some organizations who care about the citizens voting to help them get an ID. I think that would be an excellent way to serve those who cannot obtain an ID on their own. (2) I think, having an ID would empower individuals in the long run, open more doors for them, give them the sense of belonging. (3) My DH knew of someone who voted twice in a presidential election: in MN and another state. How can such acts be stopped? What if someone got paid to vote (who cannot vote, like me, for example)? (4) How does one determine if a person is allowed to vote (for example, is an American) without an ID? (5) Would same arguments apply for ID exemption if it was not about voting but, for instance, flying? (6) And those who know more on this, elderly and disabled people who do not have IDs, how do they access medicare/medicaid services? I just have a hard time believing that there is a very large population of elderly without IDs using government provided services. Well said
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Post by sarahisis on Aug 7, 2012 9:39:43 GMT -6
I've been thinking about this for a couple of days and can see both sides and both points of view... I do think my opinion sways more in agreeing with Eliza... I don't think it is so terrible that someone would be required to have an ID to vote.
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Post by bumblebee23 on Aug 7, 2012 12:05:05 GMT -6
I totally agree with Eliza I don't really see how requiring an ID to vote will make things so horrible for those that don't currently have one....and honestly how are they getting by without an ID now. You basically have to have an ID for everything now. It just makes sense that they would require proof of an ID in order to vote and I am all for it.
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Post by merrr on Aug 7, 2012 14:58:46 GMT -6
Not to poke the bear or anything...
If a person is homeless how do they even have a polling place? I'm notified of my polling place based on my address.
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Post by sharon on Aug 7, 2012 17:41:49 GMT -6
www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/165210466.html?page=2&c=yStrib article from today. To those who say we'll find a way to get ID's after the law, for those who can't get one now - I would not be willing to forfeit my right to vote on the hope that someone might decide to invent a program that would give it back me, so I would not do that to someone else. I think if people want this law then FIRST find a way to get ID's for every eligible person. That is IF the purpose is to prevent the voter fraud that isn't happening in the first place, rather than to keep certain people from voting. My eloquent wife said it so well when, responding to the question of why there is such a racial disparity among those who do not have a "valid photo ID," she said - "I think the answer to that is likely quite complex and reflected in many other issues, especially for the African American community... I don't know the whys behind these differences, but they exist and there are those working to figure out the whys and to improve things. I'm quite certain that putting up more barriers for those people who are impacted by poverty, less education, crime, etc. to having a say in who will make the laws, policies and such that one day may have a profound impact on making some change in these issues and in their lives is not the answer." But thank you to those who are discussing their opinions on this. That I appreciate.
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Post by dara1012 on Aug 7, 2012 21:34:50 GMT -6
To answer the question about how elderly/disabled can obtain medical services without an ID....they do every single day. I work as a supervisor for group homes for people with disabilities and about 1/2 of the people I support do not have state issued IDs and go to the doctor without issue, in all the appointments I have attended with them I have been asked for insurance information but never an ID. The reason they don't have state IDs in some cases is because they don't have notarized birth certificates and those are expensive and difficult to obtain if you were put in an institution and not acknowledged by your family.
The complexity of issues among poor people of all races is so difficult to convey. In people I have worked with who are poor at first it can seem that they are lazy, so I understand how that has become a stereotype. What they describe to me as a "busy day" is what I do on the way to or from work. But for them it consumes an entire day, but when you really listen and peel back the layers it becomes clear that it is not a lack of caring or a lack of desire to improve their lives (though I do realize this statement cannot apply to everyone, there are certainly people who take advantage), they genuinely lack the skills and resources to make positive change in their lives. Unfortunately over the past 5-10 years funding to non-profits to provide resources to try and help break the cycle of poverty has been cut dramatically. Denying the people who are most affected by cuts to social services and non-profits the opportunity to vote is a disservice to that population in more than one way.
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Post by elizac on Aug 8, 2012 11:18:21 GMT -6
Thanks, Dara, for your answer. Just to clarify, my question about 'accessing services' did not mean going to the doctor but getting approved for medicare/medicaid insurance. I assume one has to prove their age, identity, have SSN, etc... to get the insurance/benefit card. Also, who would help the elderly/disabled people replace their insurance info/card if lost. Just looking at the requirements to get a social security card replaced is a process in itself? I assume people who care for them would be helping them but I don't know for sure.
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Post by bumblebee23 on Aug 8, 2012 11:39:27 GMT -6
I'm sorry but it just seems like one more thing for the elderly/low income bracket of people to complain about. Yes maybe it will be a little more difficult for some than others to get a state ID but come on are you seriously telling me that is a basis for not having to have one. I am so tired about people complaining about their lives not being what they want them to be. I didn't have the easiest life but I worked damn hard to get to where I am now. If you don't like something you work your butt off to make things better. I don't think that just because it could be hard for certain people to get an ID is a basis for not passing this law it is just giving those people another excuse not to do something most of the rest of us need to do.
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Post by dara1012 on Aug 8, 2012 12:59:43 GMT -6
Eliza- getting approved for medicare/medical assistance, social security etc. is typically done by their county case manager, they have the information they need in their case file. I am sure that if it was someone new to the system than the case manager/county would need social security #, but often people with disabilities enter the system as children so they just have ss# and birth certificate and not a state ID. Most younger people with disabilities have SS# and birth certificates, but many older people don't, mostly due to the shift in people with disabilities being cared for by their family instead of institutions.
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Post by sharon on Aug 14, 2012 19:49:57 GMT -6
My school is also a polling place, so a lot parents were talking about the primary as they came and went today. I had a conversation with one dad who was trying to figure out if he could vote. He moved very recently and hasn't gotten his new driver's license yet. I pointed out that he could register same-day and bring a bill with his new address, and also pointed out the sign about same-day registration that explained the options for it. Then I thought about how if this law was in place, he would be one of the many eligible voters blocked from voting.
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